Curse

FaerieFly · May 19, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

I’ve been playing GW for about three weeks. I’ve got my first character, a ranger/monk to level 11. I’ve also tried playing a few other combinations of classes.

On the PvP side, I don’t get it at all. I’ve tried the pre-made characters as well as customized: I don’t damage anyone, or at least not much.

On the PvE side, I’d be a lot less frustrated if there was a site like Allakhazam that had up-to-date information on trainers and skills.

My ranger is going through gold like a crazy person buying 400 gold expert salvage kits. Not once has she gotten a rare material. I’d be happy to see a list of material traders and their locations. I hold onto common drops for days, finally sell them to make room for new items, only to stumble upon a trader who would have accepted them for the rare item I so dearly hoped for. It would take an edge off the frustration of learning if there was reliable information for locating traders with steel ingots, charcoal, silk and the like.

I would also like some detailed maps.

Fortunately, I have yet to face a quest or mission that goes on for hours. I may take hours, hoping to explore as much as possible, but so far I haven’t had to face what the Romac described.

I was lured to GW because 1. I hate crafting; I used to make fun of myself for paying a monthly subscription on top of the game and expansions wasting time doing something I loathed. 2. Except for DAoC, I’ve hated most character graphics; WoW has to be the worst with cartoonish female characters bobbing up and down like they need a bathroom break and the males scratching their fleas. 3. I figured those who want to sharpen their teeth on PvP have a place to do it; I wouldn’t have to participate unless I wanted to. 4. I assumed that I would be able to solo or pair up with a friend. In post-searing that is not an option. The mobs are so plentiful, the adds so numerous, and your henchmen/hirelings so low that in addition to the recharge time on your skills, you really aren’t doing enough damage to survive even though those mobs are often half your level. The Charr are ridiculously over-powered, and, worse, I’m getting very little experience for killing them. To make reasonable experience, you need to complete quests, but who knows where to go?

I’m not ready to give up yet. I personally play for the fun of what I’m doing and while I’m not totally enjoying myself due to the tremendous holes in my understanding of the game, I’m willing to spend more effort at it. Making a level in x-number of hours or days is irrelevant to me. I don’t mind waiting for mobs to pass before heading out. But when you have 3-5 mobs that you must take down and do it before the patrol of 4-6 return, that’s nuts. I particularly despise the mob healer pairs that heal each other. If you cannot damage them fast enough, the fight goes on and on and on. The only class combination that comes near being able to survive this kind of onslaught is the warrior/monk. I’d like to see transport areas within instanced that you could return to so that you could sell, talk on the phone or grab a snack without finding yourself dead when you return or having to fight the same mobs all over.

For that matter, what’s up with the death penalty that lasts nearly forever? (I do like the morale bonuses).

As for henchmen, if the idea is to allow one or two live players go out questing, then make those henchmen the level of the group leader. And allow us to set a limit to the distance they can go from us. Between Stefan the Fighter charging and grabbing new aggro and that ranger taking pot shots at mobs over cliff sides, they aren’t much of an option—especially when they are half to a third of the level of mobs we encounter.

I hope this post doesn't bring a ton of insults. No, I don't know where to find maps, etc. Yes, I found this site and one other but I am a casual player: I don't spend hours reading through forums. As Paloma Song remarked, the casual player is the one who cannot find the information, gets frustrated and tosses the game aside generally without anyone ever hearing from them. Perhaps none of you were ever this far behind in the learning curve, but I am and would like to learn more. Just hoping to find a site with some basic information like: the difference between a horn bow and a short bow and how to get around without getting killed.

Manderlock · May 19, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by horohoro08

i think the game can have some unnecessary mobs removed or weakened. for instance, in the elona misison, in the beginning, u hav to kill bunch of bulls, which is absolutely pointless, then when u get to the crystals, before entering the base where the crystals are held, there are countless numbers of mobs just standing out in the open, which is also pointless, and people just use the "back alley" to get to the bases, and that countless number of mobs just stand there anyways. and sometimes when u team up with a noob and he runs into the mob, well, ur screwed, kuz u'd see this big patch of red dots moving towards u on ur map, and then u restart. so i think there are some mobs that can be removed

What you want is to dumb down the challenge, that would not be good.

The Ascention missions are meant to weed out the fools that *do* just go running out into twenty five lvl 20s and exepect to win. This is so the players after ascention dont have mess with morons.

horohoro08 · May 19, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

What you want is to dumb down the challenge, that would not be good.

The Ascention missions are meant to weed out the fools that *do* just go running out into twenty five lvl 20s and exepect to win. This is so the players after ascention dont have mess with morons.

but sometimes i just get real bad luck that i team up with bunch of morons constantly and they just constantly mess me up, i guess its just a matter of luck then

Redfang · May 19, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

You can never make a game easy enough for some people to be able to play it. If you think this game is too hard, give Hello Kitty Online a try.

Studio Ghibli · May 19, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

.. if they didn't have something challenging, what would be the point for the people who want that challenge?

The charm of the advertisement of not having to spend so much time to play is more the: "You don't have to invest half your day, ever day, just to be on an even playing field with everyone else."

Striker Shardale · May 19, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

the main word here is STRATEGERY

xakia · May 19, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Thunderhead Keep is a lovely filter. I dread Temple of Ages for being so easily accessible.

Helfarch · May 19, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

The charm of the advertisement of not having to spend so much time to play is more the: "You don't have to invest half your day, ever day, just to be on an even playing field with everyone else."

Except that you do becuase otherwise you don't have the skills/runes/experience required to be competitive with someone that does have that time.

It's an RPG, RPGs take a metric arse load of time to play well, that's half the fun more game for the $. However I am already sick of having to kill the EXACT SAME groups over and over in ever single instance. At least make the ones just out side of town random "havn't I killed you 30 times before?" just get's boring.

And hasn't it become obvious that 'uber' skills/runes have just replaced 'uber' items as the grind part of the game. A skill tree would fix half of this and the PVP whingers about not having skills they need. 'Oh but then you have to grind to level' REALLY!? who would have thought, playing the game to level.

But in the end you can't please everyone, all those that complain have already paid their money so ANET don't really give a rat's. They have their money, you have the game, might as well try and get the most out of it.

sarpedon deathwind · May 19, 2005, 05:57 AM // 05:57

im a casual gamer, and dont have a ton of time to dump on this game. i do find it enjoyable. its not impossibly hard, but its instant success either. wow is my only other online rpg venture, and that took forever to go nowhere. took me 3 months to get to 50 there, but only about 4 weeks to cap here. and getting a group for a mission ive found easier here-wait awhile for a party. in wow i had to wait days for a group to form for some of the instances-and didnt do some because i could never get a group. the only reason to pump massive amounts of time into this is either to make money selling lots of loot, or making sure you have every last rune and skill. the problem is people are still on the grind quest, and not here to enjoy the story and have fun. i still have some problems with the game-but i enjoy it for what it is

Akshara · May 19, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

many who label themselves as "casual" gamers really are not in the least: their posts, their time played, their game progress, but most importantly, their approach to the game, clearly point to something more than "I'm just going to hop on every now and again."

Just because a person spends 25+ hours a week during the first three weeks of getting a game doesn't necessarily mean that they can continue that level of time commitment indefinitely.

In another thread, I referred to myself as a "casual" player as well, though I've been able to invest a little over 60 hours into it since release day. My goal was to get over the learning curve and build a character or two for PvP, then drop back to a "once a week" type of schedule. But I'm not even close to having a character ready for PvP, though that's another discussion...

All of us are "hardcore" gamers in general, or we wouldn't even be here on these forums, or have bought the game the week it came out. But whether a person is a "casual" or "hardcore" player of a particular game itself refers to the amount of time one commits to the game in the longterm, not their approach to playing or the attention they give to it while playing.

I'd always avoided MMOs because of the time commitment, even though I love crpgs. The GW promo did promise a little more than it could deliver, which isn't really that surprising. I seriously believed that I could put 30 or 40 hours into this on the frontend, and then drop back to a more casual "Sat night" approach with PvP. I'll get there, but it's just going to take longer than I had expected or hoped for.

Akshara · May 19, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Wow, ok.. just read a little further, and am going to bow out of this one.

You know Siren, I actually agreed with many of your initial points. But you just went too far over the edge, man. To disagree with his opinion is one thing, but this whole abusive psychoanalysis trip is simply inappropriate. Rarely have I seen such a clear example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Maybe you should take your own advice...

Quote:

instead of wasting our time here, or wasting your time playing a dumb online game.

Siren · May 19, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Akshara, fair enough, but what I was getting at was that Romac's "point" (the end-game missions being too difficult) was haphazard and clumsy, because like others have said in this very thread, it's called "Ascension" for a reason. Those final missions are designed that way for a reason: it's the ultimate test...the crucible, if you will, for the player.

So, to label it a grind in the first place is asinine. They're not grinds; they're simply the hardest missions in the game, and with good reason: they're passage to the end-game, if I'm understanding things correctly.

I think Xoduz summed that up nicely:

Quote:

You just proved my point that you don't know what grind is. What you are talking about is repetition. Grind, in an RPG sense, is the gaining of levels through repetition. Grind is not simply repetition, or just about everything can be defined by grind. I log in 10 times a day, do I grind when I log in? When I travel around the world multiple times, am I grinding when I click the travel button for the 20th time?

When I look at the list of your grinds in other games, notice you had to specify the level or it would be meaningless? And then when you come to your other points reguarding GW you refer to hours or tries, when they are all completely determined by your skill level. If your skill level, or that of your friends/party/guild, beats the mission first time through, does that mean you "skipped" the grind?"

Seriously, i'm not trying to be harsh because you seem intelligent and thoughtful enough, but your way off on your premise.

Akshara, regarding the points about the psychoanalysis, well, yes, a bit of psychoanalysis there, methinks. But I don't think it's completely unwarranted, because what rational gamer acts like if they can't beat a mission within a certain amount of tries, within a certain amount of time, then it's the mission's fault and not their own?

Given that Romac's complaints are far from legitimate (they basically boil down to "Ohmigod i cant beat teh mission eazily and i rule teh game so they must be brokin!1!"), what other reasons are there other than some personal issues? My intent wasn't to turn the thread into a couch session, but I did want to explore that possibility (not maliciously, mind you) that maybe Romac's annoyances aren't due to the game at all.

Regarding the points about a casual player, he has a schedule and would wake up at 5 am to squeeze in an extra 2 hours. Casual gamer? I don't think so. That's a regimented, almost boot-camp type of schedule there. He doesn't even react to the game in a casual manner, lol...hell, he didn't even react to my initial counterpoints in a casual manner (or really, anyone's counterpoints). It's all flaming, insults, degradations, mockeries, personal attacks, vendettas, etc., to him, regardless of what is really being said. Does that sound remotely casual?

Guardian Legend · May 19, 2005, 09:58 AM // 09:58

agree with OP. Way too many missions are hour+ affairs. Any future missions should be much shorter.

Romac · May 19, 2005, 10:42 AM // 10:42

one thing i haven't addressed here is how people may be getting a false impression of the difficulty of missions because they are cruising through missions on the coattails of others.

Unless they did one of these hard missions, first try, easy peasy, with a henchman only team, they are getting a false impression of the mission's difficulty because they are on an experienced team.

I group with humans as a last resort...unless it's the weekend, i just don't have the time, and when i do play it's often early morning and there will be only 4 or 5 people standing around in the higher level towns...as a result i found thirsty river, elona's, thunderhead keep, and ring of fire extremely difficult, but i have succeeded in completing every mission in the game with all henchie teams except for thirsty river, and ring of fire.

In light of that, it's pretty funny when people cruising through missions on the coattails of others claim i have no skilz.

shinseikaze · May 19, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

what annoyed me the most..........was when your trying to run away from a group of mob they wont stop chasing you.........eventually you die and start mission ALL OVER again......wasting precious time

time is money

Akshara · May 19, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Does that sound remotely casual?

No, he doesn't sound casual at all. Quite the contrary.

Good show on the response, btw.

Quote:

I group with humans as a last resort...

Romac, I know there's only so much time in the day. But I've found that grouping with others is one of the more enjoyable aspects of GW, and you may be missing out on that part - it does make the "grind" feel much less like work. And my experience has been the opposite of yours, where it's much easier to find good teams during the off hours or early morning hours. Fwiw... good luck.

smitty-gw · May 19, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

The missions are the primary story line. They are more difficult than explorable-area side quests.

One hour + to spend on a mission is not grinding. Noone develops a game for 15 minute clips. allocate ample time for a mission based quest, especially later in the game..... period.

Dying at the end of the mission does suck, but deal with it. Get a better party or try a different approach. There is no gold, item or experience penalty for dying in this game, just the death penalty, which miraculously is reset at mission outpost.

All you sacrifice is time, so be more careful.

EnDinG · May 19, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Reading some of these posts, just giving everyone whos involved so far a heads up here, please keep posts clean and don't attempt to flame someone for their own options. A few of the posts I've read are border line for my likes.

Thanks all.

Siren · May 19, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Akshara, thanks. I try to play nice, but occasionally "teh hatred and anger" (good lord did that rebuttal ever suck...lol) get the better part of me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romac

one thing i haven't addressed here is how people may be getting a false impression of the difficulty of missions because they are cruising through missions on the coattails of others.

Unless they did one of these hard missions, first try, easy peasy, with a henchman only team, they are getting a false impression of the mission's difficulty because they are on an experienced team.

I group with humans as a last resort...unless it's the weekend, i just don't have the time, and when i do play it's often early morning and there will be only 4 or 5 people standing around in the higher level towns...as a result i found thirsty river, elona's, thunderhead keep, and ring of fire extremely difficult, but i have succeeded in completing every mission in the game with all henchie teams except for thirsty river, and ring of fire.

In light of that, it's pretty funny when people cruising through missions on the coattails of others claim i have no skilz.

Firstly, Romac, drop the elitism, because it's not helping your case and just making you look like a fool who isn't in touch with reality. Not to be harsh (because I'm positive you'll react like you're being totally victimized here, so I want to shoot down that reply immediately), but you're thinking of yourself way, way too highly here for us to take your argument seriously.

Secondly, So you've completed "every mission in the game[...]except for thirsty river, and ring of fire" using only Henchmen. Big deal. You've said it yourself that the early missions in the game (what was the exact quote? "Kryta? lol your barely out of the tutorial") are insanely easy--so I wouldn't exactly consider you skilled because you were blasting through the earlier missions, using Henchmen. Anyone can do that. That doesn't make you uber-skilled. So that's the first fallacy of your argument.

Thirdly, when you start getting to the higher difficulty missions later in the game, don't confuse your success using Henchies as anything indicative of l337 skills on your part. For the early parts of the game, Henchies do just fine, nowhere near the effectiveness of human players, though, but in the later missions, success without using human teams is luck, pure and simple. Again, success there doesn't make you uber-skilled. That's the second fallacy of your argument.

Fourthly, just because someone is on an experienced team (human team--bots do not count) does not mean they're not pulling their weight. While certainly, some players may group with a Level 20 to get to a particular area, most players I've seen do contribute to the team. There are the errant few that should get booted, but for the most part, a mission's ease is directly dependent on the organization of the team participating. To imply that someone finding a mission easy because they've merely grouped with four Level 20s is asinine, and yet another fallacy of your argument.

Shall I go on? Romac, your argument is full of holes, simple as that. Anything you've been throwing at us, we've been throwing it right back in your face, and very easily, I might add. So do yourself a favor (and do us a favor, as well) and just think before you make another post, because I have a feeling that if you were to really think critically about what you're saying, you would see how (swiss) cheesy it really is.

Manderlock · May 19, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romac

one thing i haven't addressed here is how people may be getting a false impression of the difficulty of missions because they are cruising through missions on the coattails of others.

Unless they did one of these hard missions, first try, easy peasy, with a henchman only team, they are getting a false impression of the mission's difficulty because they are on an experienced team.

I group with humans as a last resort...unless it's the weekend, i just don't have the time, and when i do play it's often early morning and there will be only 4 or 5 people standing around in the higher level towns...as a result i found thirsty river, elona's, thunderhead keep, and ring of fire extremely difficult, but i have succeeded in completing every mission in the game with all henchie teams except for thirsty river, and ring of fire.

In light of that, it's pretty funny when people cruising through missions on the coattails of others claim i have no skilz.

What, I see no one saying they "cruised through missions on the coattails of other"

I think that this is a poor attempt to make yourself feel better after alot of people said that the crap you where comlpaining about was.......well.........easy.

And drop the OMFG I PWN YOU ALL, I DID THE WHOLE GAME WITH HENCHIES attitude it just gave me a good laugh.